Episode 5: A New Vision for Environmental Management at the Department of Energy

In this special episode of the EFCOG Exchange Podcast, host Mike Nartker welcomes Assistant Secretary of Energy for Environmental Management Tim Walsh for a wide-ranging conversation about the future of DOE's Environmental Management (EM) program.

Assistant Secretary Walsh reflects on his first eight months leading EM, sharing how his leadership experience has shaped his approach to accelerating cleanup and instilling a renewed sense of urgency for the program. He discusses his vision of transforming former cleanup sites into assets that support America's energy future, the nuclear renaissance, and AI infrastructure.

The conversation explores opportunities to strengthen partnerships between DOE and its contractors, leverage artificial intelligence to improve efficiency, and foster a culture of innovation, accountability, and urgency across the EM complex. Walsh also highlights the importance of empowering contractor expertise and positioning EM to enable future DOE missions while continuing to safely deliver cleanup results for the American taxpayer.

Whether you're part of the DOE enterprise, an EM contractor, or interested in the future of environmental cleanup and nuclear infrastructure, this episode provides valuable insight into the priorities shaping the next chapter of the EM mission.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Welcome to the FCOG Exchange Podcast, your source for information and insights on all of the important missions underway at the U.S. Department of Energy and the network of companies that supports uh getting those missions done. My name is Mike Narker. I'm with Longenecker and Associates, a Geosyntech company, and we're proud to both be a member of FCOG and to support the Energy Facility Contractors Group in its mission of helping to ensure mission excellence across DOE. Today's podcast is a special one for me. On a personal note, I have spent most of my career as a journalist in government and now in industry, involved with the U.S. Department of Energy's Office of Environmental Management, which is responsible for the world's largest environmental cleanup program addressing the legacy of past government nuclear weapons and nuclear research sites. So today I'm especially excited and proud to have with me the current head of what today is called EM,

Meet Assistant Secretary Tim Walsh

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Assistant Secretary Tim Walsh. For those who may not be familiar, Assistant Secretary Walsh has a unique background for EM, having come from the construction industry. He's also a proud military veteran, having served eight years in the Army Corps of Engineers and having led paratroopers in both Operation Desert Storm and Operation Desert Shield. And so I will uh turn it over to him now to let him say a few words before we get started.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Yeah, thank you, Mike. Appreciate the uh warm introduction and welcome listeners to FCOG. I've really enjoyed the few interactions I've had with both the FCOG board and the larger FCOG group here a couple of weeks ago and look forward to building on uh what I feel is a strong relationship with FCG as we move them the mission forward. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

And so to kind of kick things off, you're now about six months into the job leading EM,

Leadership Lessons from the Assistant Secretary Walsh’s first eight months and the future of the EM mission

SPEAKER_01 2:09

uh, especially given your unique vantage point, uh having a background that's been very different from many of your predecessors. What has been the biggest takeaways you've had so far?

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Yeah, thanks, Mike. Uh actually, it's been eight months now, a little over eight months, uh, although I joke uh with my wife that it feels like it's been about a year and a half. Uh I'm used to working hard, but this is probably one of the uh the more demanding jobs that I've had uh in my career, including, you know, starting a company from scratch, which grew into a uh very large vertically integrated real estate development, construction, and property management company. Um, so there were a lot of sleepless nights uh doing that. And uh as our field managers actually said last week in an intergovernmental meeting, uh, this is not a nine to five job. This is a uh 24-7. I'm always thinking about the next thing, the next meeting. Uh, it's incredibly diverse, but I'm I'm loving it so far.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

You know, we always joked um eight months in DLEA time represents about a decade in real time, I think.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

Yeah, that that's true. I just I just wish the bureaucracy would move a little faster to keep up with the the pace of uh things and the uh pace of change that that we're implementing.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

So you mentioned your background uh in construction and real estate. How does that background plus your your military service background shape your approach to leading EM?

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Yeah, that's a that's a great question. I'm sure there were a few uh head scratches when President Trump uh nominated me uh for this this position. But you know what, everything just boils down to leadership. And it's um I think I have a great background uh with a civil mechanical engineering degree from West Point and from Stanford. Uh engineers learn how to solve problems, learn how to identify issues. Um I've always been very entrepreneurial as well, uh, and always look at opportunities to improve the way things are done and not just keep doing things uh the same old way. Um so I, you know, I think uh my career in the military, leading men in combat, um, being able to work in stressful environments, uh leading large fast track projects. Um uh we used to joke uh that we called them build design because we were building as fast as they were being uh designed. But those were very collaborative uh projects, which I really enjoyed and actually led me later on to use that same concept: starting Confluence, uh the company that my wife and I started 20 years ago now, uh, to be a vertically integrated, to really look at cutting sort of the waste in the real estate development and construction uh process. And again, you know, taking all those lessons learned uh into EM, looking for opportunities to streamline what we do, to be more efficient, to get more work um done with the uh given amount of taxpayer dollars that's appropriated to us every year.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

You know, it it's it's interesting you mentioned the idea of looking how to do things different because,

"Cleaning Up for a Purpose": Supporting America's energy future and AI infrastructure

SPEAKER_01 5:38

and uh, I'll probably age myself a little bit. I've been I've been involved with EM long enough to remember the days of EM uh cleaning up to make wildlife reserves, like we've seen at the Fernald site, um, to EM kind of working itself out of a job. But today, under your leadership, and I think what's been exciting for so many who are involved in this effort, be it in government, be it in industry, be it the community stakeholders, is what we've really seen this move of cleaning up for a purpose. Cleaning up so the next generation of capabilities, facilities, projects, whatever it may be tied to the department's greater goals of energy production, national security, innovation really coming to fruition. And we've certainly seen that a lot over um over the course of this year, really over the course of your tenure, like you said, eight months. And um, what when you got into EM, what made you think that was possible, that there was that opportunity?

SPEAKER_00 6:37

You know, it really started before I got into EM, right after um Secretary Wright uh asked me to do this job and and President Trump uh appointed me to do the job. And it's really the leadership that President Trump and Secretary Wright have have brought to this administration, which is we have all these unique assets in America that we should be putting to more productive uses, really for the American people. And it starts with the energy. So ever everything, as you know, requires energy uh to enable our modern lifestyle. And unfortunately, you know, we were on a path where for the last 10 years or so there was no new energy addition. As a matter of fact, there was energy subtraction as we were transitioning too fast to other forms of energy. And this administration is focused really on uh providing opportunities uh and energy for everybody across America so we can re-industrialize our country and we're less reliant on on foreign countries. And what excites me is that in the heartland of America, places that um really enabled us to win World War II uh with uh atomic weapons and then later atomic energy, those those places uh saw a lot of decline. Places like Portsmouth, uh Pike County, Ohio uh lost a lot of jobs through de-industrialization over the years. And as we shut down these large gaseous diffusion uh plants that were used for uranium enrichment, those jobs went away. And then the the mindset was well, we're gonna replace those jobs with cleanup, but then what about the grandchildren? Um, so that's the new focus now is really using these tremendous assets that we have, turning them into American energy hubs to provide the energy for reindustrialization and for uh AI infrastructure.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

I I know you've been to many EM sites already, and I'm sure when you go, because I've heard it too,

Partnering with communities to enable the nuclear energy renaissance

SPEAKER_01 8:55

is that the communities that are around these sites really appreciate that recognition, the role they played in World War II and the Cold War, and then being looked at again. You know, they're proud of that legacy, even as they're dealing with the environmental impacts. And I'm sure when you go, they're just as happy and as excited to hear they're gonna have a future going forward in contributing to the country.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Yeah, you're absolutely right, Mike. Every every uh site I go to, I meet with the local uh economic development council or the community reor reuse organization, and all I hear about is you know, what's next for our site. And uh interestingly, some of them think the you know, before I got here that it was 20 years once we were 100% done with the cleanup, but a lot of our land, it's uh only a postage stamp, you know, in this vast site uh that was actually contaminated. So there's land available today that we can start uh using whether we're leasing it or or um transferring it to the local community. Um what I'm really excited about too is the nuclear renaissance. Uh, and if I could just talk about that for uh a second, um uh all of these sites contributed to the atomic age, uh, and we have the skilled workforce there, and they're pro-nuclear communities. They've lived in and around uh where we've done amazing uh work in the nuclear industry, uh, and we know how to safely uh handle uh nuclear materials. Uh we've proven that, and we've uh pretty much studied every aspect of the uh nuclear life cycle, the nuclear fuel lifecycle. So I feel like at this point of time, we're really at the precipice of the new nuclear renaissance or the nuclear rebirth uh to provide the energy we need uh for AI infrastructure uh for future generations to come. Uh so that's what I'm really excited about uh is taking these pro-nuclear communities and enabling the nuclear renaissance to happen right there, starting with stuff like uh uranium enrichment that's going on right now uh in in Portsmouth uh with Centrist, they're gonna be expanding. General Matter is is working uh to get their first facility up and running uh in Paducah Global Laser Enrichments right next door there as well. Orano announced a five billion dollar investment in Oak Ridge. So you see it really building. You know, we were, even though it's not one of our sites, but we met with uh Uranco. Uranko is gonna be doing a two and a half billion dollars uh so instead of having foreign adversaries do our uranium enrichment, we're back to doing it right here in good old America. Um, but I'm you know, I always look at the whole picture, and it's not just about creating the enriched uh fuel for these new nuclear reactors, but it's what are we gonna do on the back end and how are we gonna be reprocessing that and and finally uh you know figuring out what we're gonna do for a deep repository um for the remaining high-level waste. And, you know, I'm excited that we're working with the Office of Nuclear Energy and NSA as well to figure figure out the full uh fuel cycle so that we can build trust with American people, that we can deploy nuclear reactors, that we can build the fuel, we can reprocess the fuel, and then we can safely dispose of any of the high-level waste.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

Now I know um Savannah River has

Savannah River Site, H-Canyon, and advancing plutonium missions

SPEAKER_01 12:50

a lengthy history with some of those things, including reprocessing. What role do you see that site playing in kind of this broader vision, the nuclear renaissance EM helping to enable the nuclear renaissance?

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Yeah, I'm glad you brought up uh Savannah River, Mike, because uh when I went down there, it was impressive to see uh these massive canyons, H Canyon, uh, that were built, you know, they're 50 years old, uh, that were sitting idle uh and they're a tremendous asset to us. And why would we want to go spend 18 billion to build a new facility to reprocess when we got one right there? And we have the workforce and the know-how right there in in Aiken, South Carolina that knows how to operate that. So I was excited that I was able to get uh approval to get that H cannon restarted and then HB line as well, uh, so we can start reprocessing on downblending plutonium that then later we can uh work with a uh partner, a private partner to create Mox fuel.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

So you mentioned a topic that's near and dear to many

How EM can “GSD or Get Stuff Done”

SPEAKER_01 14:00

in Fcog's heart, which is uh streamlining and right sizing uh regulations and requirements to be able to get the maximum amount of work done. And so I'm curious um as we kind of pivot from the vision of what EM can enable to how you're gonna get the job done. What's been your experience so far with regulations and requirements inside EM? And especially being a construction man, a private sector man coming into government. Um feel free to be as candid as you can.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Yeah. Uh you know, my model motto is GSD, get stuff done. And uh I'm a man of action. I like I like seeing progress made. Um so I'm used to working with regulatory agencies to um get permits done uh and and to you know make sure that we're giving in the information uh that they need in a timely manner and staying on top of them. And you know, we've had projects with the Corps of Engineers that's taken five years to get approved, and that's five years of of lost uh economic development while we're waiting on the on the core, and I'm talking my private sector. Uh so I I was kind of expecting some of that here, but one of the things I've learned is that uh we spend a lot of time reviewing things and not a lot of time actually doing things. And um, and I'm not really sure what uh the reason I get it probably is due to you know the regulatory requirements, but I'll get a you know, candid example here is the Hanford uh tank waste that we're implementing our dual

Hanford's dual glass and grout approach

SPEAKER_00 15:50

glass plus grout approach. Uh it's what we've been doing for years at Savannah River. It's an operation, uh, we know how to do it safely. Um, but unfortunately, you know, we're tied up with uh a very bureaucratic regulatory process in Washington State that we're we're trying to work cooperatively with Washington State to get them to accept a permit, but it shouldn't take 20,000 pages of documents to uh pass a permit to allow us to do the the um tank bottoms, which is the effluent from washing down uh DF Law scrubber. And and you know, so we need to look, you know, not only internally but externally to the uh partner regular regulatory agencies we're dealing with.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Aaron Ross Powell So for our listeners who might not be as familiar with uh EM and the saga that is the cleanup of the Hamford site in Washington State may be, what is this uh grout and glass approach and how is it uh how do you see that helping the cleanup there?

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Uh so over a year ago, um a uh the the new essentially legally binding agreements with Washington State were signed uh that allows for a portion or a fraction of the tank waste that that is pre-treated to either be sent to DF Law, direct feed, low activity waste, vitrification. And you know, the estimate is about a third would be vitrified and two-thirds would be an alternative treatment. Well, that alternative treatment is mix it with with uh a cementitious grout and then ship it off uh out of state to uh be depos uh disposed of in a near surface uh uh disposal. So that um that strategy really came about because of the tank side cesium removal system, the TISCR, which removes 99.9% of the really hot radioactive uh cesium and strontium, the shorter lived, higher radioactive materials. So most of the radioactivity is is removed through this ion exchange process and then put into a tank. Uh and what is in that tank, which is AP106, is very low activity waste that uh can be safely grouted um and and is done, you know, not just in the US, but it's done globally for treating low activity waste.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

So now as you as you look at how to write size requirements from a government perspective, from a from an agency perspective, rather better way to put it, to set the conditions for success. You know, the the members of FCOG range from from everyone, as you're well aware, from from the large DE contractors, your Bechtels, your Mentums,

Empowering contractor expertise

SPEAKER_01 18:53

all the way down to to small businesses that play support roles at sites across the program. And so I'm wondering what is gonna be your or what are your expectations for that industrial community uh going forward?

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Yeah, you know, and I I want to just revisit the uh question because I think I got a little off track with the regulatory process, but I think your question, which plays into the the next question here, uh was really about um streamlining. And one of the big things we're doing is streamlining the 413 process and coming up with a tailoring mechanism. And I I understand why the 413 process was put in place because EM failed on big capital projects. Actually, DOE in general probably did. Uh, they were over budget and uh way past schedule, uh, and there wasn't a lot of accountability. So, you know, the natural tendency is if you don't do something, let's add more bureaucracy on top of it. Well, we've gotten to a point over the last probably 20 years of just adding more and more and more requirements and more and more review steps without making really the process better. And and going back to first principles, what are we trying to accomplish? How do we hold people accountable to accomplish that? Uh, and then uh what is our role and then what is the contractor role? You know, I view our role as, you know, we're setting the expectations, we're setting the requirements, and then we're leveraging our really experienced contracting community to come up with the best means and methods and and really use their expertise to figure out how to execute the mission. And I think that's where we need to get back to is us doing a better j job defining what exactly we want, and then allowing the contractors to have use their creativity and expertise to accomplish a mission. So, what that means also is that we need to align uh incentives. You know, it's for too long, incentives were tied to the amount of money spent. So fees were tied directly to how much money you spend. I was a contractor, that's called, you know, cost plus fee. A lot of what we do in EM, it's hard to quantify exactly because it's like peeling back an onion. You don't know what's inside until you peel back the different levels and layers. Um so uh so I get it, but you know, I think there's still an opportunity in the cost plus arrangement to incentivize the contractors to spend less money and to get more work done to be tied to schedules. So that's where I would really like to see us go with our relationship with our contracting community.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

Then if that's what you want from the contracting community, what can the contracting community expect from you and your team as they go forward? as you're trying to make that alignment uh on incentive.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

I think

Better decision-making to improve mission execution

SPEAKER_00 22:04

better decision making on our part would be a key. I mean two things kill projects time and bad decisions or indecision. I think indecision is is as bad as uh um you know or worse than making the wrong decision and I think too often we're afraid of making the wrong decision so no decisions are made. Um so I think uh they should expect from us timely decision making and setting of clear expectations.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

When you're looking at a particular contractor out in the field what are your

Building trust through collaboration, innovation, and honest communication

SPEAKER_01 22:43

what are your criteria um evaluating them especially based on your private sector experience which uh none of your predecessors had they didn't they didn't come into this with that view like you said you were a contractor um so it's a different mindset advantage and advantage to have that so how can you tell when a contractor gets it and is is being successful or is going to be successful that's a great question and and I think it uh it really starts with the idea of collaboration.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

I mean we we're in this together and the more collaborative uh a contractor is the more willing they're uh to offer suggestions for improvement I think the better we will both perform. Um so I think that's probably the number one thing. And I think secondly is uh being innovative and creative and not just doing the same old way bring bring suggestions and I I guess lastly would be transparency and and open communication so tell us when we're not performing and tell us what information they need so uh so the contractors can better perform. Uh again I maybe in the past we didn't have a spirit of open and honest communication but in you know as long as I'm here hopefully for the next two and a half years um I want that honest feedback from the contractors because they're the expertise and I want to make sure that that trickles all the way down to the person doing the work in the field because I've learned that some of the best suggestions actually come from the guys doing the work in the men and women uh doing the work in the field um because they they can see what needs to get done and how to do it better.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

I think I think our industry listeners are going to find that welcome this idea that they can come in, they can bring ideas, talk about issues, have that kind of more openness than maybe has been in the past before. So I think they'll find that very welcome uh to take advantage of or to to utilize

How EFCOG can strengthen engagement with the contractor community

SPEAKER_01 25:00

and then as a collective how can organizations like FCOG best support your goals and help sustain the long-term progress?

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Well I think the great thing about FCOG and and actually a lot of our other industry organizations is that they're the communication tool that we need to rely on to get sort of my vision and and DOE at large vision out to the contractors doing the work. And I also think it it should be um you know we had over the years um contractors have um we have fewer contractors now I guess that's the most honest way to say it as there's been mergers and acquisitions and I understand it uh there's there's efficiency that comes from that but also the larger an organization gets maybe the less nimble they are so I'd actually like to see us uh do more outreach to smaller contractors and get their innovative and entrepreneurial spirit back into to EM to maybe challenge some of the larger uh contractors that have set processes or are set in their ways yeah one of the things you've mentioned of course

AI to enable cleanup success

SPEAKER_00 26:20

is um cleaning up of places like Portsmouth and Ohio and Paducah and Kentucky uh ideally for or partly for uh data centers and AI so that of course opens the door to uh discussion on everyone's favorite topic which is AI digital tools is certainly a strategic priority of FCOG and so I'm wondering what do you see as your priorities to use AI and EM yeah I've I'm self-taught in all things computer uh and I was an early adopter when the very first Mac uh came out in 1984 um and and I it it is here uh I heard uh my friend Senator Dave McCormick describe AI as like rain uh it is it is here uh and it's uh not going anywhere every time somebody turns on their phone there's ai embedded in everything they do now I use AI whether I'm uh preparing to give a speech or write a position paper on something I encourage our team to do it and it's made me a better writer a better thinker it comes up with it and frankly it's I've used AI a ton to just get smart on uh EM and all things nuclear because AI sort of favors uh DOE and government sponsored websites so you're getting actual information I know there's always fear about misinformation with AI but it is here it's a useful tool I heard um our uh NA1 uh talk last week about uh a new delivery system for a hypersonic missile um that they delivered I think seven times faster and 17 times cheaper using AI to develop it versus sort of the traditional uh way that they would have designed it in the past. So I think it's gonna allow us to do things better and faster more efficient it's gonna uh open up opportunities that we can't even imagine today um we're engaged in the Genesis mission uh there's uh four things we're doing for the Hanford tank waste that I'm super excited. I think it's gonna be announced at the end of July in a DOE-wide uh event but the that will take us a long way in better characterizing the tank waste and then figuring out even more innovative ways to expedite and accelerate and save taxpayer money and cleaning up the Hanford take tank waste.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

I mean that must be such a a wealth of opportunity I mean uh if I remember right the the last end date I saw for Hanford put it in the 2100 time frame uh stunning to think about I I I don't think it's quite there.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

I think it's 2086 or some something around then um but when some you know that that's another uh good point because when something's so far out in the future there's just no sense of urgency to get it accomplished but every one of our sites there's what's called hoteling cost and I'm sure your listeners are probably aware of that but it's you know it's just the cost to keep the gates guards guns and and infrastructure in place and almost half of VM's budget I think it's three and a half billion dollars spread across all of VM is just that hoteling cost. So every year that we can shave off uh the end date of one of these projects we can save billions of dollars uh Savannah River is a great example you know if we can can uh get a little more funding there to accelerate the tank waste we can shave the completion of the tank waste mission from 2041 down to 2037 each year we we uh do that is a billion dollars of savings to the taxpayers.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

It's gotta be good too for the morale of the program the workers the communities

Bringing urgency to cleanup and supporting DOE's future missions

SPEAKER_01 30:47

then now they can see the stuff being done in a relatable timeframe. I've I always remembered a quote from a former Secretary of energy I I won't name the person but was at a conference and compared EM to building a cathedral and his idea you know the generation won't see and he meant it in the nicest way I know that but I think a lot of us saw it as you know this won't ever be done you know we won't see the end. And so that flip to urgency bringing the schedules in that's got to be exciting throughout the program.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

Yeah absolutely and I mean there's certainly going to be things that go beyond um you know 2040 the next 14 years or so but a lot of our sites whether it's Portsmouth, Paducah um we can substantially be done with the DD work out there, clean it up and repurpose it for reindustrialization. You know other places there's going to be ongoing groundwater uh treatment and mitigation that we continue to do or other uh environmental monitoring that we have to do but I see EM actually evolving and it already does this but EM as a service where as NNSA continues their missions uh we're gonna work right beside them uh to uh be their service provider same with uh uh naval reactors uh we'll be there right aside alongside of them or office of science cleaning up some of their older legacy buildings and making way uh for new facilities um and then as we enter the nuclear renaissance I mean we're gonna be very active uh in the nuclear life cycle innovation campuses because the idea is that some of uh the waste that will eventually go there whether it's a reprocessed waste from EM or from private companies uh will be put into a deep repository so and those are you know those are hundred year projects um so we're not going anywhere we'll we'll be evolving but hopefully we won't be building any more monuments to the waste gods I like that so as you're as you're heading towards that longer term vision how do performance

Accountability, performance, and stewardship of taxpayer dollars

SPEAKER_00 33:10

trust and accountability how do you see that contributing to that success to getting there yeah again I think performance is tied back to setting clear expectations uh which then ties into accountability and holding our contractors accountable for um for performance whether it's schedule or cost and aligning those incentives so that they're incentivized uh and aligned with our expectations for doing the work uh in a timely manner and for less money frankly um and and then participating in upside of any of those cost savings and then uh all of that ties into trust right I mean uh you have to have a trusting relationship that they're working on the best the that they're they're both advocating and they're stewards of taxpayer dollars because these are all of our taxpayer dollars that are being spent on each job site and I think we need to remember that and there's not an infinite budget here uh we have whatever it is 37 billion dollars of of trillion dollars rather of federal debt today EM is a portion of that with our long-term liabilities so we need to do our part to be better stewards of the taxpayer dollars.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

So as we reach uh the end of this episode first of all I want to say thank you very much for taking the time to talk with us today. We know how busy you are, we know the the scope and scale of the program you're leading, the challenges you have, but as we heard today more the excitement ahead of what EM uh is helping to enable across the country we've gotten into a habit to

Assistant Secretary Walsh’s first visit to an EM site and his biggest surprise leading EM

SPEAKER_01 35:02

make our last question the can you tell our listeners about the first DWE site you ever visited and what did you take away from that experience?

SPEAKER_00 35:09

Yeah you know as we as we wrap up here uh and and one of the things I've learned is to answer the question they would that you wish they would have asked. Speaking from a former reporter Yeah so so no I will uh answer that it was Hanford uh and my my son went to college at Whitman College and in Walla Walla Washington not too far away we used to fly in and and out of uh Pasco and uh so I I I knew Hamford was somewhere in eastern Washington. I didn't realize it was right on the other side of the river uh it was so close um but uh it is a uh a massive site it's an amazing site the people there are amazing um and I think we owe an obligation to Hamford to really make progress in cleaning it up and then allowing for new economic development to happen there. Um so Hanford was my first plan to go back out there in a couple of weeks uh as well I I didn't make it to PNL so I want to make sure I get to visit the uh the lab next time I'm out there but the question I I wish you would have asked was um what what has been my biggest surprise in the first eight months here what is it and and uh the the biggest surprise is really the people uh both with NEM the feds uh and uh and the contractors and uh the actual workers the union workers out in the field doing the cleanup work but uh I think you know when you're a civilian looking at the federal government you sort of just cast this wide um blanket over everybody saying you know they're uh they don't work very hard and they got a cush job but I can tell you the feds within EM work extremely hard they're they're passionate about what they do they they care um and that that was a big surprise to me um the leadership team we have in EM is exceptional I mean I if I was starting a private company it would be a a team I would select to work for me because they they just care about the mission so much. So that's that's been sort of the biggest surprise and you know when you surround yourself with good people you can accomplish just about anything.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

I think that's the absolute best note to end on when we're talking about EM. So thank you very much this is Secretary Walsh yeah thank you Mike